Carrying It
Carrying It explores what responsibility creates in people.
Through conversations with people who hold responsibility, and people who feel it, the podcast examines how pressure, behaviour and influence move through work, relationships and everyday life.
Because responsibility doesn't disappear. It shifts, and someone carries it.
Carrying It
What Gets Passed Down?
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In this episode of Carrying It, Phil Scott speaks with Issy Hathaway, an events and marketing coordinator early in her career, about what responsibility feels like when you experience it long before you have much control over it.
Together they explore the pressure of being expected to have answers, the constant comparison that comes with early careers, and how leadership behaviours shape confidence, ambition and self-belief in ways that often go unnoticed.
The conversation touches on workplace culture, promotions, self-doubt, social media, career progression, and the quiet decisions people make when they no longer feel valued.
If every generation inherits more than responsibility alone, what are we passing down to the people learning to carry it?
Responsibility doesn't disappear. It shifts, and someone carries it.
That's true inside organisations, but it's also true in society. Every episode of Carrying It supports organisations working to improve how responsibility and mental health are understood and supported in real systems.
You can learn more about the organisations we're supporting through the links below.
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/local-minds/
http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/
Responsibility is unavoidable in leadership and influence. In all kinds of roles, from chefs to event organizers to producers. What matters isn't whether it exists, but what it creates and where it travels. Responsibility creates emotional load. That load doesn't disappear. It shifts, and someone carries it. Welcome to carrying it when responsibility doesn't stop. That's what this podcast is interested in, not how hard leadership is, but what responsibility creates. This conversation is about inheritance, what gets passed down when responsibility moves through organizations. Today I'm joined by Izzy Hathaway, an events and marketing coordinator early in her career who experiences responsibility from a very different position in the system. Not creating it, but often receiving it. Welcome, Izzy.
SPEAKER_00Hello. Thank you very much for having me.
SPEAKER_01All right, let's dive straight in. Being an event organizer, Izzy, is a challenging role at times. There's a lot of pressure with the deadlines and, you know, responsibility for putting on that event on that one day, making sure everything goes well, probably akin to planning a wedding, perhaps. Describe to me some of the scenarios where you experience pressure in that environment that isn't a direct relation to a specific deadline or an event happening.
SPEAKER_00I think it's everyone looking at you. Working in events, you're obviously you are constantly. I feel like I'm constantly looking towards the next deadline. I'm almost wishing my life away, always thinking, right, that date, that time, you know, working towards that. And I think that there's pressure and responsibility with everyone looking at me and making sure that all of the cogs in the wheel are coming together. And of course, everyone does their own job to bring it all together, but I am leading it. I'm managing it. And although I, you know, have my manager who is the overarching manager leading the event, I still have my own responsibilities. And it is still a case of people looking at me and you know, answer this question because you're the only person in the room that that knows because you have a view of everything going on.
SPEAKER_01And what happens then when you don't know?
SPEAKER_00I think I'm quite good at asking questions. I luckily enough feel like, you know, I'll do my best to go and find out for myself. But it's it's just difficult, isn't it? I guess coming in and being that person that should know everything, but also being okay with the fact that you've own, you know, you've not been doing this for 20 plus years, like your manager has, or you know, someone higher up than you. It's understanding that, yeah, okay, you think that you've got so much experience doing it for just a year or two years, but I have had to come to realise it's okay to not know things. And as long as I've got a manager that is absolutely fine with me asking questions and and figuring it out and and understanding it, then I think we're good.
SPEAKER_01Part of your responsibility is to the attendees of these events that you put on, right? Because a lot of them are industry events and the people that are attending have sometimes paid considerable amounts of money to perhaps exhibit there or to attend for a ticket. So they will have expectations from you as the event organizers as well. How does that play into things?
SPEAKER_00I think it's it's a bit like it's a bit like customer service. You know, you can you can be one person internally with your with your team, and then when it comes to an event and there's delegates attending or speaking to you and have a level of expectation, you've realized that there's a shift to customer service. And at the end of the day, they have paid money to come to this event. So I feel responsible as I would if I was working in a shop or or serving them at a restaurant. I would feel responsible that they have paid this money and they are getting what they paid for, really.
SPEAKER_01So if the old mantra of the customer is always right applies, do you feel a greater responsibility to those attendees than you do to your company that's organizing that event?
SPEAKER_00It's a hard one. I think that there's always a level of self-doubt. You know, sometimes we we talk about how an event's gone and we think, were the speakers right? Was the venue right? Did the sponsors get what they needed from it? I feel I feel a lot of pressure in terms of sponsorship as well, because companies are paying a lot of money in sponsorship and you know, it could be 20 grand for sponsorship fee. And if they're not getting what they need out of it, that's definitely a level of responsibility, and I would be the point of contact for that. So it's also then when we speak about it internally, we talk about how an event's gone. And I think that I sometimes have a level of self-doubt in knowing, right, is that just an unhappy customer, delegate, sponsor? Are they an unhappy customer within their own right? Because sometimes we'll have internal conversations and there's politics between different companies and different personalities. And I would ordinarily sometimes go, that makes sense, that they're not happy with this. Whereas internal conversations, I overhear those and realize, oh no, okay. So they're complaining, but they they complain about everything.
SPEAKER_01When you get an unhappy sponsor, does that come directly to you, or does that travel down, do they complain to your manager or someone else in your organisation, and then that filters back to you as part of that retrospective?
SPEAKER_00It can be a bit of both, to be honest with you, because I'm the point of contact with all of the logistical side of things, but I I tend to have a really, really good relationship with the sponsors. So they could come to me and say, I'm not happy. We had an event last week and we had an unhappy sponsor and it came to me. And then we also have a sponsorship manager, so then it went over to them. And I guess I do understand that that's not it's not entirely my responsibility to deal with that, and I don't directly deal with sponsorship and the fees, but it's never nice feeling as though, you know, I've come in, I'm doing my job, I'm doing what I'm told I need to be doing and what I'm taught. And if a sponsor comes to me and says if they're not happy with what we're doing, I'm then definitely reflecting on that and thinking, right, well, how can we make this better?
SPEAKER_01What about scenarios where it's out of your control to make it better? So where the thing that they're complaining about or the thing that they want changed isn't something that you have responsibility for. You're the one that is there to be complained to, even though you can't do anything about it.
SPEAKER_00I guess that that goes back to if you're in a restaurant and you're not happy with your food, or a customer's not happy with their food, and they say, Can I speak to the manager, please? And you're not the manager, you direct that on. It's never a nice situation to be that frontline person, but I'm also very much aware that I am not the manager or the director and it is out of my control, and I'll pass that on because it's not my responsibility.
SPEAKER_01And when you do these events, there's lots of other people there, right? There'll be lots of people, similar situation to you, similar stage, and having those same thoughts and responsibilities. Do you look around and do you see how they're coping? Do you talk to them at the event, or is it just a hundred miles an hour and then you have no time?
SPEAKER_00It's definitely a hundred miles an hour and and I pro and I don't have time. But you know, sometimes when it gets to the networking in the afternoon when the event sort of run itself by that point, I definitely do try and put myself out there and speak to other people. However, I think a lot of people at the same stage in their career as me would agree that no one wants to let on that they are at the early stages of their career. Everyone wants to be confident in their role and their job and their career, and almost not let on to the fact that they've probably only been in this job for a couple of years and they don't actually have that much experience. It almost feels a little bit maybe competitive isn't the right word, but definitely people don't want to say, How are you finding it? You know, how what what are you doing? And and admit that they're probably younger and less experienced.
SPEAKER_01So do you think those pressures that you put on yourself, that these people put on themselves, can they be greater than the ones that you get from the nature of the role or from the people that you work with? Definitely.
SPEAKER_00I think so. I think that I I constantly questioning my going at the same speed as other people. You know, we have LinkedIn now. It's amazing. Such a great platform. You're connecting with personal relationships, people you met at school or met at university, but also new people or people you've worked with just very briefly in certain jobs, and you're watching how quickly they are progressing. And I'm constantly questioning: Am I getting that promotion when I should be getting that promotion? And uh, am I going as quickly as other people? It's it's a lot, I think.
SPEAKER_01And what does it feel like then when you see someone, classmate from school, someone that you studied at university with who seemingly is already three rungs higher up the corporate ladder than you might be?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's not a nice feeling. It's the way with social media now, though, isn't it? Like, you know, you can constantly see what everyone's doing online, and you have to often tell yourself, you know, you can't compare, you're you're doing your thing, and you have to be confident in the fact that you're progressing at the stage you are, or if you're not, then is the company right for you, or that the, you know, the role.
SPEAKER_01What about the flip side? Put yourselves in the shoes of that person who's three rungs higher up. What do you think they're thinking? If you see someone you were at school with who isn't as high on the career ladder as you are, what does that feel like?
SPEAKER_00I think there's just a level of competitiveness, isn't there? And it's gonna be a great feeling. I would say that I'm also somebody that would see other people and think to myself, you know, I've progressed in this way. And I think it's just natural to do that. And you you feel really proud of yourself. I try and put all of my wins on LinkedIn to show that I'm doing well, and not just for other people, you know, people that are the same age as me or the same level in their career, but so that people can, for future jobs and future roles, can see what I'm doing. I think it's definitely a really great thing to celebrate everybody's wins and and do really well. But I guess it's just, yeah, it is so easy to compare and you can constantly question where where you're at and what you're doing.
SPEAKER_01Do you think there's a constant pressure to always be looking for the next thing? You talked there about advertising yourself on LinkedIn or or other platforms, sharing your wins. Obviously, part of that is because that's now how people communicate. Although we're more connected than ever, we're also less connected, deeply connected. So that posting of updates and of life events is just a natural part of life now. But is it more than just wanting to share how you're doing with people that know you? Is it a constant advertisement for your next role or your next gig?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I mean, I got taught that at university to update my LinkedIn profile, make sure I've got a, you know, a good um about me section and make sure I put all of my experience on there. I think now, if I'm going for a new job, you know, people look at the CVs, they do, but I also think that they are looking at my my LinkedIn profile and seeing what I'm doing. They're getting more of me and more of my personality from LinkedIn. I was told a couple of years ago, make sure you've got 500 plus connections on LinkedIn. That's when you're going to be in front of the person, someone you're up against, because they're going to see that you're really active and that you've got lots of connections and that you're professional. So I see it, and I think a lot of people do see it as it's like an advertisement for your future employer.
SPEAKER_01So you've worked across a couple of roles now, where you've experienced leaders in different ways, different behaviors from managers, senior managers, CEOs of the companies that you've worked for. What's stuck with you as positive or negative behaviors?
SPEAKER_00Positive behaviors for sure. And I think this directly correlates to the negative. Positive behaviours is having such a good relationship. Any manager that I've had that I've had a really good relationship with, I think I excel. I do so much better, and I'm so much better at my job when I have a good relationship with a manager who checks in with me, who you know, often people say no question is a stupid question. They say it and you still feel like you can't ask questions. And I've had good managers and I've had bad managers, and I would say the clear difference between the two is having a really good relationship where I feel like they care about me and my progression. Because at the end of the day, your manager is above you. I've spoken to friends and people my age before, and it feels like, and I've been in the situation where I feel like my manager doesn't want me to progress and get that promotion and do better. And I think, why would you not want that for me? We, you know, I'm I'm trying, I'm here working below you. And I think that it's just having that good relationship where you're not afraid to ask questions, you then can ask any question, and it's always going to be to improve how how you're working. I would say a bad manager is not having that. They're being a barrier up almost. It's very a work professional relationship where you feel, in my experience, I felt like they don't necessarily care about my career and and and me as a person.
SPEAKER_01You talked there about a professional relationship. I think you can have a very friendly professional relationship and a caring professional relationship, but it can still be a professional one. You know, you're not talking about where you're going out on Saturday night or what your dog's favourite um food or TikTok video might be. That's maybe one end, one extreme. But in the scenarios that you just talked about there, what was it about that relationship that made you feel like they didn't want you to progress or didn't care about whether you progressed?
SPEAKER_00This is different for everybody, isn't it? I I would always make it clear almost from the get-go, you know, starting a new job that I want to progress in the company. I think that there's a big thing at the moment with people sort of staying at companies for a good, you know, maybe three or four years and then moving on. I personally don't feel that that would be the right path for me if I was super happy at a company. And I guess I've said in the past, you know, what can I be doing? How can I get that promotion? How can I, how can I, can I take on more work? What can I be doing? Um it's just not been, it's not necessarily been received badly, but it's it's just not it's not been like, right, Izzy yet bad. I can I can see that you really want to work hard and you and you want to progress. This is how this is how we're gonna do it.
SPEAKER_01I think there's a lot of senior leaders that talk about longevity in the workplace, as as you just made the point. And we're not going back to post-second world war where people had a job for life and the job you got at 20 was the job that you retired from at 65. But we almost seem to have gone too far the other way that now actually, if you've been in a company for three years, you're probably one of the longest serving people of the younger generation in there. But do you think that's a misunderstanding of those senior leaders that they see that happening, but it isn't because young people want to, you know, job hop. It's because they want the opportunities and the responsibilities and they'd love to have them in that one company, but when they're not given them, they're not willing to sit around and wait.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, I definitely do think it's a misunderstanding. It's a hard one, really, but I it it does, it baffles me to be honest with you, because I think there are so many people that want to stay at companies, and if there is progression, people aren't well, some people might be, but I'm not asking for a promotion every every six months. It's if my work is changing and I'm doing more and I've been at the company for two plus years, a promotion to say thank you for that and to reward the good work and the hard work and for you to feel like you are valued at the company. I can't seem to understand why senior leaders would want to not do that because then all it's gonna lead to is is someone feeling undervalued. And then what's gonna happen? You're gonna get someone else in who doesn't know the company as well, you're gonna have to train them again, and you're back at square one. But that's something I I I still don't really understand why that happens and and where the thought process is there.
SPEAKER_01Do you think it's intentional or do you think it's accidental?
SPEAKER_00I think it's intentional. The manager said something like, Yeah, I thought we'd get another um year out of you. And I was so confused by that because I thought you must know then that you're not rewarding people and giving promotions when they're due and understanding that there is going to be a high turnover of staff and people are gonna stay for you know two or three years and then move on. So I I do think it is um intentional for sure. I still it doesn't make sense to me. I still I still don't understand it really.
SPEAKER_01Do you think there's a risk that it will be copied? Those people that are experiencing that now are going to go on to be senior leaders into the future. The fact that they're driven means that they're more likely to be successful in their lives. And that's obviously a behavior that as a society we should want to encourage. But with what you're talking about here, do we risk corrupting them for those future leadership positions as well?
SPEAKER_00For sure. Yeah, I mean it's taught behavior, isn't it? If I have spent my whole career knowing that I need to jump from job to job, and when I do finally become a senior leader, I'm gonna understand that the only way that I got there was jumping job to job. And if you've been taught that your whole career, then it's almost just inevitable that it's gonna carry on.
SPEAKER_01Why don't you think it's spoken about more? The way to solve a problem is to highlight that that problem exists, to talk about it. Do you think that there are enough people in those situations raising those concerns and saying, why is this happening?
SPEAKER_00No. Because I think that I think everybody's out for themselves. And I think that you're on your own path, and if you've gotten to a point where you feel undervalued in a company, it's quite hard to come back from that. And you're probably already looking for for other jobs. But I also think it's really I absolutely hate having a conversation where I'm asking for a promotion or a pay rise or a job title change. I hate those conversations, and I think many, many, many people also hate those conversations. And if you do pluck up the courage to have those conversations with your manager and you are shot down, to then take that further and say, well, you know, this isn't fair and this isn't right, and you're gonna lose everyone in the company after a certain amount of time because you're not, you know, rewarding them for their hard work. That's a that's another level of conversation, you know, that's so much sort of stress and anxiety that I personally would really struggle to have, and I think a lot of people would.
SPEAKER_01In that scenario where somebody has plucked up the courage to have that conversation, been shot down, they're carrying the weight of that conversation and what that means for them and their career while they're then continuing to do that job, probably looking for another role somewhere else at the same time. But that's not immediate. They're still going to be in that company for a month, three months, six months while they find a new position. What is it like for them for that period of time?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I I've actually I've been in this situation before. It is unbelievable how much you lose your self-confidence and you can kind of believe that you didn't deserve that. It's really not a nice feeling to have, you know, a bitter taste left in your mouth about a job that you were at for or a company that you were at for however many years. But I think that on the one hand, it it it you sit there and you go, Well, I I think it's a good thing that I'm, you know, taking action and I'm moving on where I don't I'm not happy and I feel undervalued. But I think you can definitely start to think that did I not do enough? And you know, are they right in the sense that they're not giving me that promotion? And I think any existing relationships at work can deteriorate even more or deteriorate just in general, because you do feel resentment towards the company. But I think that, yeah, confidence levels for sure, you can lose your self-confidence. And I think that you should have done more.
SPEAKER_01You've obviously come through that. What helped you through that? What support mattered to get you through that? Either from yourself, from your friends, from other colleagues, from the wider society.
SPEAKER_00Definitely friends and family, because you know, your friends and family know you so well and know the sort of person that you are, and that if you've put in your rule into a company and you you didn't get what you needed back, then it's definitely the right thing to move on. But I think also accepting that that chapter's closed and that door has been closed, and then opening the door to all of the possibilities of new companies, new jobs and and everything like that, you know, going on to LinkedIn and seeing everything that's on offer, it's also really exciting. I definitely sat down and said, right, what have I learned from this company? And I have learned to this day, I've learned so much. And it was a great job, but moving on, it's now like, well, that was great for that period of time. Really great foundation to then move on and experience new opportunities.
SPEAKER_01And I think that's clear that learning, having these experiences, having responsibilities is how people grow. Nobody goes into CEO positions straight out of university because they haven't learnt, they haven't experienced, they haven't held responsibility. So if that's a natural thing that has to happen in work, people have to carry responsibility. How do we make sure that they don't lose part of themselves while they're learning how to do that?
SPEAKER_00I think it's a case of accepting where you are and you know, having that ambition. I'm guilty of doing this as well. I always want to be better and I worry about where my career's going to end up and and what level I'm gonna get to. But it's almost accepting the fact that you are early in your career and that's okay. And if you just go into every situation, every opportunity with with arms wide open and you know, try and and just be a sponge, try and learn as much as you can. You're not supposed to know everything now, and that's okay. And as long as you're asking questions and you're doing your best, and you know, you have that ambition to say to yourself, right, I really want to be here, you're always gonna be working towards that goal. But it's it's taking the pressure off if you can and saying, You're not the CEO, but you might be one day.
SPEAKER_01That's a beautiful quote. I'm definitely going to use that one. I think we're coming towards the end of the time. Let me wrap this up by asking you one more question. I introduced this episode by saying we're talking about inheritance. And I think every every generation in the workplace inherits things from the one before it. I talked earlier about the post-second world war, and there's been a couple of generations since then, and uh lots of studies that look back on what those transitions from one generation to another in the workplace were like. At the moment, we're in another one of those transitions, so there isn't yet the breadth of academic study. But as someone who's living it, what do you think is being passed down currently about responsibility and how to deal with it and how to carry it?
SPEAKER_00I think that we people of my level, I think, are being asked to do far more than they used to. And I think that the level of responsibility now is you're be you're being paid half the salary, if not less, than you know, managers and senior leaders, but you are still expected to carry so much responsibility and and do your job. And if things go wrong, you are the person that people look to. And I think that people aren't being rewarded for that, given the time, resources, and sort of the feedback and support that they need to be carrying that level of responsibility. And I do think it's really hard.
SPEAKER_01What advice would you give someone listening to this who's in your situation and has thought, yeah, that's me?
SPEAKER_00I think that you need to be sure of yourself and know what you want. You know, you need to sit down and make a career plan. Think about where you want to be in 10, 20 years' time and understand that not every company is going to be for you and it's okay to move on, but it's also good to speak up and say, you know, look, I want, I want to be in this company for for the foreseeable future. How can how can we make that work? And being clear about that when you start at a company, because I think that if you're not clear about that and they're expecting a high turnover of staff, you know, it's just about communicating that with managers and with the people that you work with that you want to be there for the for the long term, but also understanding that if you know if a company isn't right for you, that's okay. And if you're not being rewarded, you are so within your rights to move on.
SPEAKER_01Nice practical note to end, Izzy. Thank you very much. It's been an enlightening conversation for me. So I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me today. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_01Each episode of Carrying It supports organizations working to improve how responsibility and mental health are handled in real systems. Links are in the show notes. This conversation was about inheritance and the reality that what gets passed down is often far bigger than responsibility itself. Every organization depends on people learning to carry more. The question is whether we notice what they're carrying while they learn.